Think About the Thing Not the Term
Talking, chanting, kneeling, killing, and looking past the finger at the moon
1) Ways we treat language, whether Gaza is a prison or internment camp or concentration camp or none of those, and whether there’s a genocide happening there:
(recorded 11/19)
2) Missing the point, changing the subject, and protesting protests:
Rough transcripts are below. For more on this language stuff check out No Magic Words. Thanks for coming, clicking, listening, etc. 🫶
I said water expecting a word
would satisfy my thirst
talking all about the second and third
when I haven’t understood the first
Rough Transcripts:
1) Ways we treat language, whether Gaza is a prison or internment camp or concentration camp or none of those, and whether there’s a genocide happening there:
00:00
So a lot of arguments about Gaza, and what it was like before October 7th, and what it's like now, what is happening there now — I think a lot of these arguments are really misguided, and kind of doomed from the start to be not at all productive for anybody. I think the general rule here that we want to adopt, that would be really useful and helpful for all of us, is to talk about the thing, not the terms. Think about the thing, not the terms.
This can be hard, for a few different reasons. You know, there are times when we can talk about terms, talk about vocabulary, you know, clarify, what does this mean? Argue hey it would be better to use this term than that one. That’s fine.
00:42
But there are other times when that's not our focus, we are talking about the content out there in the world, and then we slip into arguing about the terms in ways that just drown us all.
So with Gaza, is it an internment camp? A concentration camp? An open-air prison? Definitely none of those things?
01:05
Okay, we can have the discussion of what does concentration camp mean? What are the connotations? Is that really shitty to use that when talking to Israelis? Is that kind of some anti-semitic dig or taunt about the Holocaust? That's a worthwhile conversation to have.
01:24
But if we're talking about what Gaza is, nobody thinks that every person there lives in a cell with bars. Nobody thinks that there was or is a Treblinka extermination camp. And nobody thinks there was or is the ability to hop on a plane and go to Rome, or New York City.
01:50
We can wall off some of the possibilities at the extremes and just talk about what is it like there? Okay it's not a prison in the sense of bars and cells. But the people in there were not allowed to leave. So that makes it a prison in some senses. And yeah, when we disagree on one of the terms—
—It's an open-air prison!
No it was nice! There were some trees!
—No, it's an open-air prison!
No, there's beaches, it's not a prison!
—Well, they only get electricity four hours a day!
That's plenty!
02:25
Okay, quit arguing about the term and let's talk about what it's like, and how we feel about that. Similarly, is a genocide going on right now? Well, framed that way, it is a question about okay, this term we have of genocide, that is a subject of international law, as it was defined in the wake of World War II.
02:47
And there have been in history I believe three events, three like warfare slaughters that have been adjudicated in the International Criminal Court, it's like yep that was a genocide. Those three formal adjudicated genocides that definitely met the abstract definition we made are not the only bad things that have ever happened since we made that definition.
03:12
And again yeah sometimes we do care about the term. So if you're some kind of academic or international lawyer, you know, preparing for a case, or talking in that capacity, sure, yeah absolutely, explain what the term means and how it's used and all that, but most of our discussions, in most of the world, and most media appearances,
03:37
are not really focused on that, right? It's actually more focused on, and what we actually care about, and take ourselves to be focused on is, what is happening? And is it okay? Is it bad? How bad?
So for example some kind of scholar saying “oh yes, there's a risk of genocide. I don't think it's genocide right now, but there's a serious risk that it could become genocide.” That sounds like “hey it's okay right now, but there's a risk it could become not okay.” Kind of like your doctor saying “yeah your cholesterol is not too high right now, but it is elevated. So you ought to chill out on the buttered popcorn. Otherwise in a few years you might have high cholesterol, and have to start taking this pill every day.” So it's not a problem now, but it's moving toward where it could become a problem.
That is NOT what the deal is in Gaza if you say that it's not genocide right now but it could become genocide.
No. No. Thousands and thousands and thousands of innocent women and children and others are dying, are dead, are blown to bits, are under the rubble, are in mass graves. And unless this ceasefire occurs and takes hold and continues many many thousands more will die in similarly brutal awful manners.
So, I can't speak for everybody, but that's what I care about. It's like hey there are human beings suffering awful awful days, and awful awful deaths, right now. So we better stop that, immediately.
2) Missing the point, changing the subject, and protesting protests:
00:00
So that dynamic of getting off topic without realizing it, getting lost in the weeds—I think that's a common one, especially around political dialogue and debate and protest.
Take police brutality. The THING is hey we've got however many thousands, hundreds of thousands, of armed agents of the state that do their thing and carry guns and sometimes kill people.
00:24
And hey it looks like there might be an issue with that. That they're killing black and brown people who they shouldn't. And that's really weighty, any single person killed. And okay if it's like dozens or hundreds, wow. And the effects on
00:43
all of life for those folks, knowing that that is a risk. Whoa okay this is big stuff. So, how does that weigh up against like, hey, before a sports game, some people are kneeling in a way I don't like. There's no comparison.
01:02
You can talk about the latter, about kneeling, about respect for the flag, sure. But that's not in the same ballpark. Kind of a pun there. It's not the same football stadium, you know? So we can have both conversations. You can talk about the flag and symbolism and respect and standing and whatever.
01:24
But that’s a separate conversation. That's no kind of answer to the question of police brutality, of police racism. If we were a more rational animal it wouldn't matter the tone or the style or the tactics of the protest, we would look at the THING.
01:47
Okay yeah I don't like that those protesters yelled such such a thing or broke these windows or whatever. But now I've noticed this thing that is bad, and I want to fix it. Fuck those protesters but hey here's a thing that I want to fix.
02:01
We're kind of the opposite. It's like oh well sure I'm sympathetic to the thing they're describing, but I don't like their tone. It's strange. There are the terms of high and low decoupling. It would be more rational to decouple.
02:21
It doesn't fucking matter the tone or the approach. How does that reflect on the cause? That's a strange confusion I think. And yeah we go so hard on that. Not only does that uh you know dispose us against the cause but that is our argument against the cause. As they try to bring up the cause we bring up the kneeling. What does that have to do with police murders?